Fear of Hybrids, Again

July 3rd, 2010 by Potato

I’m disgusted by this article in the Huffington Post. I’ve been warned about that rag and the quality of their science knowledge (worse than none) before, but it became the topic of some discussion over at PriusChat, and I had to check it out for myself. Note that I have ranted on this subject before.

The author describes her experience buying a Prius, after which she experienced headaches. She took the car back to the dealer, got a Highlander instead, and the headaches went away.

If that was all there was to it, it’d be fine: a weird anomaly, who knows why it happened, but her problem is solved so good for her.

But that wasn’t all there was to it. Because the Prius is a hybrid, she immediately jumped to the conclusion that somehow, the magnetic fields were causing her headaches. She then goes on to insinuate that these same fields caused “inflammatory” issues and a brain tumour in people she knows who happen to drive hybrids.

This is not evidence, it’s not science, it’s fearmongering of the worst sort.

To try to add weight to her arguments, she got a “meter” and tried taking some measurements of the magnetic fields on her own. And you know what, the only thing the general public fears more than magnetic fields are numbers, so you can bet that went well. She obviously did not know how the meter (or magnetic fields) work, because she only gives one number in the article.

Here’s the thing about magnetic fields: they’re kind of like sound. You have a frequency, and a strength. So to say you have a sound of 70 dB, or a magnetic field of 2 mG, doesn’t fully describe it. You’d also want to know if it was a deep bass thrum, or a middle C, or so many Hz for the magnetic field. And she doesn’t say that anywhere.

That gets particularly important when she pulls out this mystery meter. I’ll bet you dollars-to-doughnuts she’s trying to use a cheap “trifield” type survey meter, that only has a little dial readout for showing field strength. These are meant to be used around power line fields where you know the frequency you’re dealing with in advance, and they give very screwy results when presented with fields of unknown frequency and transients. Unfortunately, all we can say about the fields present in a car is that they are highly unlikely to be 60 Hz powerline fields.

Often, these meters are induced-current based, so if you have a 1 mG 60 Hz field, it shows up as 1 on the meter. But, if you have a 1 mG 600 Hz field, it shows up as 10 on the meter. So when someone who is unskilled at science or numbers — or much of anything really — gives a number in an article, I have basically zero faith that that number represents what they think it represents. For example, she says that just turning on the Nav and AC system in her car increased the field almost as much as the hybrid drivetrain did, but that makes little to no sense, on many levels. First off, the nav and AC shouldn’t draw nearly as much power as what’s needed to move the car (though all of these are well-shielded in a hybrid), so the measurement shouldn’t have gone as it did. And even if that was the case, it would mean that the nav and AC should be just as much a cause of her headaches as the hybrid drivetrain if she believes magnetic fields are responsible. She shouldn’t be out on a crusade against hybrids, but against in-dash nav systems!

She justifies getting a nav system in her Highlander by saying that the slightly smaller Prius “compacts” the fields, again showing that she doesn’t understand how things work — the extra space in the SUV is wasted, the design constraint still puts the nav system at arm’s reach for the driver.

She then goes on to insinuate that hybrids pose a health danger, remarking that “I started to wonder about my clients who drive hybrids. Every one of them has an inflammatory issue that baffles me…” Her byline says that she’s “Yoga, health expert”. What do you want to bet that every one of her clients, no matter what they drive, has “an inflammatory issue”?

The conclusion though was the biggest tip-off for anyone remotely familiar with the FUD surrounding hybrids that she was not a source to be taken seriously: she repeats some of the nonsense about the batteries and Sudbury, that has been debunked many times (including here), clearly indicating that she has not done her homework.

Scientific articles have peer review systems to try to catch these kinds of glaring errors, and those occasionally do fail (recently, our group tore apart an article, providing 3 pages of corrections, and the other reviewer said simply “it’s fine”). But the mainstream media, which should be more careful since it deals with a more credulous audience, often has much more glaring mistakes present — perhaps because journalists are equally credulous when it comes to technical matters.

All that said, we return to the issue of her headaches. It’s been said that we can’t disagree with the fact that she experienced headaches that went away when she changed cars. I’d say that we could disagree with even that level of evidence (did she make it up to get a controversial article out that other people would cite, even if just to debunk her?), especially given how subjective and random headaches can be. But, let’s grant that her headaches did happen, and even that they went away with the change in cars. It could be that the headaches were unrelated to the car itself, and could have been due to the stress of buying a new car, worrying about finances, etc., and would have gone away in a few days/weeks anyway. But even if we grant that somehow, the headaches were due specifically to the car, that does not lead us to blame the hybrid transmission and/or magnetic fields. There simply is no evidence of that. She had an individual problem, and she solved it by changing cars, and that’s great for her. But it’s misleading to then go and blame one specific aspect of the car without any evidence. She could have been allergic to the ecoplastic used in the dash, or to a host of other things. My favourite theory revolves around the rearview mirror: the Prius is a great car and I love it, but the rearview mirror is horribly low. I’m constantly ducking my head to look under it to check for pedestrians as I make a right turn, and if she was doing the same that repetitive head-ducking motion could have given her a headache. Or, similarly, the rear spoiler splits the rear window, at just about the height most cars’ headlights fall. If she’s driving down even a moderately bumpy road, their lights would constantly strobe to her point of view as they disappear behind the spoiler and reappear above or below it.

There are numerous reasons why this car in particular could be giving her headaches, and unless she’s willing to get back in it for some experimentation, we can’t say what factor could be responsible (if any). It brings us back to the issue of placebos: for an individual person, a placebo may work to solve their problem, such as a headache. They may be willing to pay money for a placebo (e.g., a homeopathic tincture). On the individual level, that’s fine: do what you need to do to solve your individual problem. But on a societal level, we don’t want to ascribe efficacy to what we know are really just placebos and have them for sale in our pharmacies, because it’s not good science, and it’s not good policy. Likewise, we don’t want to go around banning things like cell phones and wifi and hybrids without evidence that they are indeed causing harm (and if she’s afraid of hybrids, man, wait till she sees some of the controversy over cell phones!).

Finally, a quick repeat of my note on risk vs benefits. We know that hybrid cars have demonstrable environmental and financial benefits. We know that they can reduce our individual exposure to known carcinogens (e.g.: diesel), and our societal exposure to other pollutants. We don’t have good evidence that they even do have increased magnetic fields inside of the passenger compartment, and if they did, whether those fields would be harmful. The risk-benefit right now is highly likely skewed towards there being a worthwhile benefit, but because people are so afraid of the unknown, the unknown risks are large in their minds, and lead to articles like this one.

Sleazy Car Dealers

June 5th, 2010 by Potato

I was out helping a friend car shop today when I ran into a fairly sleazy dealer tactic. The guy was actually a pretty good salesman: enthusiastic, knew the car, personable… but then he started hammering out numbers (using the “adjust to a certain monthly budget” method) too fast to follow. He was trying to beat a quote she got from Mazda, which has 0% financing right now, and he said that Kia didn’t (though when we checked the website afterwards, they did). He was going to discount the car to make up for the financing, and was hammering away on the calculator. He turned the calculator around, and said he could do $162. We were like wow, that’s less than half of Mazda’s quote. “Oh, no, that’s bi-weekly, so multiply by 2 to get $324 per month. Pretty good, right?”

Pretty sleazy, actually. There are 26 bi-weekly periods in a year, but only 24 twice-a-month periods. So to get a monthly payment from a bi-weekly one, you have to multiply by 26 and divide by 12, which is 2.167, not just 2X. So he was actually presenting a $351/mo payment, which was more than the Mazda.

Auto-Links Tint

May 13th, 2010 by Potato

I got the windows on the Prius tinted last weekend at Auto-Links. I ended up choosing them because they had a lot of good reviews over at redflagdeals, including a group buy discount from that group (which is still good if you’re considering tinting your car), and their prices were roughly $100-150 less than what the dealership wanted for tinting. John and Cody seem to run a quality shop, taking care to wash the windows really well before applying the computer-cut tint. In fact, there was a minor problem with one of the tint sheets and John threw it right out, no hesitation on doing the job right.

I have to admit that my heart leaped into my chest when I heard the “pop-pop-pop-pop” of the retaining clips releasing the door panel (they need to open the door panel to get the film to the bottom of the glass), but of course they’re pros, and it all went back together nicely (no door rattles either, which was my big worry since it’s a problem I’ve managed to avoid thus-far on the Prius).

I ended up up-selling myself into the ceramic tint: I really don’t care about the electronic non-interference perk, but I did want to stay with a fairly light tint since I do so much night driving, while getting better heat rejection. One of the big reasons for getting the windows tinted in the first place was to reduce heat build-up, and the ceramic was not that much more for a fairly large increase in heat rejection. The film came in a “30%” and “40%” optical transmission, though apparently the ceramic is actually lighter than the rating. It is indeed a fairly subtle tint, this isn’t a black-out gangsta limo tint:

A really nice subtle charcoal ceramic tint from Auto-links on my Prius. 40% front, 30% rear

I got 30% on the back, and 40% on the front, and there is zero issue with night-time driving, with the possible exception of some light from headlights behind me appearing to streak out along the defogger lines of the rear window (I hope to update later with a picture of that effect). I’m hoping that will settle down as the film cures and adheres better to the window, but either way it’s not a big issue. In fact, I probably could have gone darker on the back (I had in my head going in that I wanted something in the ~20-25% range), but unfortunately the one downside to Auto-Links & ceramic tint is that there aren’t a lot of choices along the tint spectrum, with nothing available between 15% and 30%. One final perk I should mention is that these guys take Monday and Tuesdays off so they can work the weekend, which was great because Sundays are a good day to have this sort of thing done!

Prius Scratch Repair

May 1st, 2010 by Potato

I want to start by expressing just how very, very difficult it is to try to take a picture of a fine scratch on a clean, shiny, dark car. The camera keeps trying to focus on the reflected image, and even when you can get it to focus on the car, the scratch doesn’t appear nearly as noticeable as it is in real life.

In the first two months of ownership, I’ve managed to do quite a nasty bit of work on the paint of my Prius. It only took a few weeks to get some totally not my fault scratches and dings:

A small divot in the paint from a rock

But then I parked under a tree that hates me, and it rained down bird shit and sap all over the hood of my car. I had heard that if you leave bird crap on too long, it can damage the paint, so I wanted to get it off right away. I grabbed a paper towel and some windshield washer fluid, and gave it a few quick wipes. That, unfortunately, was all it took to put some fine spiderweb/swirl scratches into the clear coat. What was far worse, however, was when I tried to get the tree sap off. It wouldn’t come off with washer fluid. It wouldn’t come off with hand soap. It wouldn’t even come off with dish soap, so I tried scrubbing a little bit with dish soap and paper towel, and all I managed to do was put some not-quite-so fine scratches in around the tree sap.

Many fairly nasty scratches in the clear coat around a line where sap was.

Ooops. These marks were quite noticeable, though that may just be because I did it and feel stupid about it, and nearly every time I walked by the car in the driveway they caught my eye. So I decided to try some Nu Finish Scratch Doctor to see if I could fix my mistake (this time, with detailing microfibre cloths — no more paper towel on the car!).

Some of these scratch removers work by having very fine grit polishers that you use to buff out the top layer of clear coat until it’s smooth and shiny again. I expected the Nu Finish to be the same, but it’s not. I don’t know how it works exactly, but my best guess is that it must somehow fill in the scratches in the clear coat because there’s no polishing needed: just wipe on, wait, and wipe off. The end result is that the scratches are still there, but they are less noticeable. Perhaps the sharp edge in the clearcoat that was catching the light has been rounded out to make it somewhat better, but the scratches are by no means gone:

Many fairly nasty scratches in the clear coat around a line where sap was.

After that I put on a coat of Nu Finish. There’s a lot of hate out there from serious detailers for Nu Finish, but I’ve used it for many years with decent results. Yes, a multi-stage cleaner, clay-bar, protector, shiner, sealant, and surface wax will give better results, but the one-step Nu Finish still takes over an hour of my time and I’m pretty tired of polishing at the end of that. No way I’m going to invest in the full detailing kit, which in many cases doesn’t last as long, either!

Prius Update

April 30th, 2010 by Potato

Even though everything is still in the break-in phase and I haven’t gotten around to changing my driving techniques, I’ve been getting pretty decent mileage in the Prius. Around town I’ve averaged 6 L/100 km for the most part, which doesn’t sound very impressive at first blush since the car is rated for 4, but you have to bear in mind that these have been short trips, just to the grocery store or the curling club. I know that in the Accord I was getting 10-12 L/100 km on the same sort of trips. As the weather has been warming up this has been getting better: the car won’t shut the gas engine off until after it’s fully warmed up (for emissions control reasons). In February, I’d get about halfway to the grocery store before I got to that point, now it happens in about 3 blocks. The consumption in town after that first few minutes of warming up has been fantastic: I drove out to Baskin Robbins yesterday for their cheap ice cream day (plus a Canadian Tire trip), and averaged 3.7 L/100 km for the trip (and my first block on the mileage display was again around 6, so the other three blocks were really efficient to make up for it!). The car simply loves London driving: cruising around 65 km/h and only stopping every 2 km or so for a light (and again to compare, I’d estimate that the Accord would get about 8 L/100 km in this kind of driving).

On the highway, I got 3.8 L/100 km driving up to the cottage one weekend, but otherwise have been around 4.5 L/100 km (driving about 110 km/h on the 401) which is quite respectable, and compares to about 7-7.5 L/100 km in the Accord.

Overall, my average has been 5.2 L/100 km in nearly 2000 km of driving. That’s as measured by the amount of gas I’ve put in and the number of km on the odometer. Oddly enough, the car’s computer/display is slightly more optimistic (and this phenomenon is well known on PriusChat).

Unfortunately, the paint is thin. I told you about the first scratch already. Since then there’s been a small rock chip taken out of the front quarterpanel, and then a tree dripped sap on the hood. Sadly, I made that situation worse with my own stupidity by trying to clean it with paper towel, which is apparently too abrasive for the hood, so now there are swirly/spiderweb marks in the clearcoat — and it never touched the sap! Finally some Goo Gone took the sap right off, but the sap looks to have taken some of the clear coat with it (the finish looks kind of dull on that line).

I’m going to try putting on a coat of Nu Finish on the weekend to see if that improves matters at all.

Prius cool fact
for this post: the throttle behaviour on the Prius can be changed in different ways. Many cars on the road have a gas pedal that gives you ~80% of your available power within the first 25-50% of your pedal range. That is, you just lightly touch the pedal and you take off to a screaming start. This is often done to give cars a sporty feel, and in part to get around the reluctance many drivers have to put the pedal to the floor when they do actually want full acceleration, but can sometimes lead to jerky acceleration if you don’t have a deft foot (which, sadly, my mother doesn’t). The Prius’ default is to have a linear pedal: 50% depression gives you 50% of your available power. Combined with the fact that there are no gears, this can make it feel sluggish on a test drive since it doesn’t take off with light pedal pressure like you’d expect it do. However, if you put the pedal down like you mean it, the car will go. If you want, you can put the car in “power mode”, which changes the pedal behaviour to give more power in the first part of the depression, to act more like a normal car. Alternately, in “eco mode” things are reversed so that the non-linearity gives you less than 50% of your power in the first half of pedal travel. That gives you more fine control over the lower end of your throttle so you can drive more efficiently with a deft touch.

These driving modes do affect other systems (for example, eco mode will let the air conditioning run lower when the engine is off to try to save energy).

Prius - First Scratch

March 27th, 2010 by Potato

My car has it’s first scratch :(

I have no idea how it happened, but just behind the rear passenger door is a small, curved scratch, about the length of my finger, and just deep enough to show the primer underneath. Now, my old car was covered in small scratches like that (well, maybe not enough to show the primer, but a common complaint about the Prius is how thin the paint is), maybe 3 dozen in total, which indicates that on average, one accumulates these small scratches at a rate of about one every four months, so to get one after a month isn’t too unusual, but I was hoping to go a little longer before having to deal with this…

Recent Prius Incident

March 10th, 2010 by Potato

I’m sure you’ve all heard it before me (since people have been telling me about it while I haven’t been watching/reading the news myself lately): a Prius in California went out of control, and the police had to issue instructions over the loudspeaker to the driver, who then managed to safely stop the car.

I (and many other Prius owners) are anxiously awaiting the full report to try to find out what really went on. I don’t want to prematurely pass judgement one way or the other (on the car or on the driver) while the facts are so thin (and a media in full-hyperbolic frenzy is not usually reliable when it comes to small details).

The biggest questions in my mind immediately were:

1. Why did he not turn the car off?

2. Why did he not put the car in neutral?

Indeed, these are two of the steps that have been widely publicized as ways to stop an out-of-control car as the Toyota recall mess has progressed. An accelerator could become stuck in any car, not just a Toyota, and drivers should know how to manage that situation! It’s possible that he had a rare problem crop up, but poor crisis management lead to it becoming national news.

Now, if he did try these basic steps, and the car didn’t obey those inputs, then we have a more serious problem on our hands. That would represent two levels of failure, and be an extreme safety concern.

Since, at the direction of the officer, he was able to shut the car down and stop, I have to initially suspect that he did not try to turn the car off or shift to neutral (or use the emergency brake?!) until after he spent several minutes on his joyride, which to me clearly indicates at least some driver-error interaction in making the whole situation worse (though a mechanical/electrical/computer problem may have initiated the cascade of failure). **And how did he stop the car eventually? By turning it off under direction of the CHP officer.

So, until a level-headed report with all these facts comes out, the take-home message: learn how to control your car in an emergency situation. CAA and Young Drivers, last I checked, offered one-off refresher lessons if you need it. Or, educate yourself: how do you turn off your car and/or shift to neutral if the throttle sticks? What happens if you do that? For most cars, there is no harm in trying, under safe conditions (i.e., no other traffic — better yet, get some friends together and rent some time on a closed track) to get up to speed, shift to neutral, and stop. Do it. Find out what happens (if anything) to your power steering and brake assist while you’re in a calm state of mind and in control of the situation. You won’t harm your car*. At the very least, look it up so you know academically.

* - probably. I wouldn’t hurt your car. But who knows what you‘ll do. ;)

If you are in this situation and want to use the brakes, apply the brakes hard and do not try to slow gradually because you will overheat the brakes and experience brake fade. Try to stop completely in one go.

One interesting twist is that the Prius (and many other newer cars) has a push-button start, rather than a conventional key-turn. That means you can’t just turn the key to turn it off, you have to push and hold the button for a few seconds if you want to power-off the car while moving (in park, you just tap the button). Now, this is the same behaviour as nearly every personal computer/cell phone/etc. on the market today. Push and hold to power off. In an interesting bit of user-interaction ergonomics, Toyota is reportedly considering adding “rapidly tapping the button” as a method to turn off the car, since that’s what people may attempt in a crisis.

Update: Someone posted a link to the 911 call at http://10newsblogs.com/audio/prius-911call.mp3 — the 911 operator does instruct him many times to shift to neutral and how to turn the car off, and he doesn’t respond. In fact, most of the call consists of her telling him to shift to neutral, and he just swears and tells her landmarks he’s passing. Don’t know yet if he didn’t hear her, if he tried and it didn’t work… but people are starting to suspect that he’s a hoax. Now I really can’t wait for a real report on the whole thing…

Good-bye to the Accord

February 26th, 2010 by Potato

Later today I’ll be driving the ‘97 Accord for the last time. All things considered, it has been a pretty good car: fun to drive, well-equipped, and reliable.

I found the original purchase agreement in the owner’s booklet: we bought it in January of 2000 (just over 10 years!) for $19k. We’ve put on 165k km in that time (I didn’t think the original owner did that much driving in the first 3 years — I always thought I drove closer to 20 Mm/yr!) and had roughly $8k in repairs. Maintenance is a bit tougher to estimate, but is probably somewhere around $5k. I’m getting ~$1k back as the trade-in, for a vehicle cost of $0.188/km. I don’t have fuel consumption records going all the way back to 2000, but in the last few years I’ve averaged 9.6 L/100 km overall, which at $1/L would cost $0.096/km, for a total cost of just under thirty cents per kilometre. There’s insurance, too, of course, and I’m sure my estimates here are probably missing some other costs since my record-keeping hasn’t been great.

Nonetheless, a bit of an eye-opener to the full costs of driving a car. I used to scoff at taking the train since it was $96 for a trip that only cost $32 in gas by car, but of course gas is only a fraction of the costs of driving!

Then again, the marginal cost of driving (gas, wear-and-tear) is actually fairly small, so that might not be the most appropriate accounting method. If I look at it as paying $30k (plus insurance yearly) for the privilege and freedom of being able to drive a car when and where I want, then the cost per trip is pretty low. And that’s how it works, too: once you have the car, it’s easy to use it for little trips to the store or to a friend’s house for a game of Settlers of Cataan or whatever. I’m sure it would probably be cheaper to not own a car and just use an autosharing service (or ick, a cab) for those trips that public transit and cycling won’t suit… but they have high marginal costs, which would make me not want to do them and so feel trapped (like, I wouldn’t pay $20 in cab fare to go to the grocery store and fill the trunk with stuff on sale).

Anyhow, I’m getting side-tracked. The point is that this was my first “real” car — the Prius will be my first new car, and the ‘87 BMW was my first-ever car, but the Accord was the first car that was all mine (repairs and all), and not a family car that I was the primary driver on. It was the car I drove on my first date, the car we took out to PEI several times, the car that took us to our honeymoon, and the car that crawled through a freak snowstorm to bring my kitty (and me) out to London.

But now it’s an old car. The repairs are starting to mount. And the Toyota recall gives me a good entry point to drive the car of the future today. So it’s time to move on.

Against all reason though, I’m going to miss it.

The old Accord on PEI with the sunset it'll drive off into

Prius

February 23rd, 2010 by Potato

I visited my Prius today. I didn’t get to take it home with me — they want me to pay first, which is kind of crazy in this world of credit, but who am I to argue with the man. It’s a winter grey with dark grey interior. I didn’t sit inside to check for myself, but the paperwork says that there are 211 km on it — a bit more than I’d expect a new car to have, but not enough that I’m concerned it was a demo and that I would try to renegotiate the deal.

This is probably a good time to review all that’s happened up to this point.

The Car Search: I must have had the longest car search process ever. Back in 2006 my car was stolen and recovered (and yes, I did disclose that to the dealer about the trade-in), and I started looking for a new one. Even though it felt icky after being stolen, I came to the decision to keep the Accord, since it was still a reliable source of transportation. That didn’t stop me from looking though: I looked at the Accord, Civic, Civic Hybrid, Matrix, and Prius. After much research I decided that a hybrid made a lot of sense in a world of rising gas prices (and I made many spreadsheets to back that up). Moreover, they offered a number of environmental benefits, so as long as the financial side was at least a wash, I was all for it. Plus, I didn’t know what my future driving cycle would be: if I had to do a commute through Toronto rush-hour traffic, a hybrid system would more than pay for itself. As a car, the civic hybrid (and later the Camry/Fusion hybrids) were eliminated due to trunk space issues. The Prius, being a hatchback (and a purpose-designed hybrid with the batteries in the floor) didn’t share that problem, and looked a lot better than the Civic on a number of spatial and amenity fronts, and even compared fairly favourably with the Accord. I did think it was bull-dog ugly at first. It’s grown on me, especially as the aerodynamic shape gets copied by more manufacturers… but it’s definitely “quirky” in the looks department. Even inside, the high-mounted information display (which I like for its functionality) just looks somehow wrong.

I also did a lot of research into the many, many myths, misconceptions, and other bizarre ideas that are out there about hybrids. And there were a lot — I’ve covered many of them in past posts. I had my dad counselling me not to get a hybrid, because the technology is still “too new” — in 2006 he said to wait a few more years for more data; now it’s 2010 and that’s still his line. At this point I know that there are still unknown factors out there, but I think that things look good enough to take the plunge.

The Wait: Then came three and a half years of further research, discussion, and spreadsheeting. The Accord had it’s share of old car repairs to make, and each time I had to wonder when it would be time to give it up. After a wheel bearing needed to be replaced this fall I figured that this winter would be its last (since wheel bearings are expensive and there were 3 more in there that might be nearing the end of their lives). A few weeks ago there was the recall mess at Toyota, and I thought it was an opportunity to get a deal on a car they don’t normally negotiate too hard on.

The recall doesn’t phase me: I think this can only lead to a safer car in the long run. Toyota is under the spotlight now and they will have to make these issues right. Any car could have a hidden major defect, and I don’t really see it as being an area of concern after it’s been found out and a fix on the way.

The Buying Process: I went to Car Cost Canada and got the invoice price report for the Prius. CCC had a recommended dealer here in London, Tim Felsky of Toyota Town. Since I know I’m not terribly good at in-person negotiations, but am good at having a sense of fairness and at working numbers, I added in a reasonable profit margin to the CCC invoice price, and sent it to Tim. He was able to work with it, and I went in to put down a deposit. It was just that easy. I probably could have gotten a better deal by negotiating harder, or even waiting a day or two (the Toyota gas pedal recall spread to the Prius braking system the day after I left my deposit) — indeed, some people at PriusChat were reporting getting below invoice in the US, and one friend said I should have squeezed them right down to invoice price, since they still make some money at that point, and there weren’t any other customers around! Nonetheless, I got a better deal than I figured I would be able to get before the recall, or if I had waited until later in the summer (or for the 2011 release to avoid the first model year).

So far, the nastiest part of the buying process has been shopping for insurance quotes. A lot of insurers want the day I got my G1, G2, and G licenses. I actually do remember the day I got my G1 way back in 1995 (four days after my birthday), but can barely remember what year I got my full G in. I don’t even know where to go to look that stuff up.

I’m also shopping for a set of winter tires for it. Since February is almost over, I may not even put them on now, but if I can get a good deal as winter comes to a close I’ll take it and store the tires through the summer.

Last Chance To Talk Me Out Of It

February 2nd, 2010 by Potato

As I alluded to a few days ago, the accelerator pedal brou-ha-ha at Toyota may open the door for a good deal on a Prius (or, it may not, since it’s one of the few cars they can still sell). I’m going to email a few dealers for quotes tonight, so we’ll see what they say.

The Prius is a very strange and polarizing car: a lot of people have a very visceral and inexplicable dislike of the car. I’ve been surprised at the number of people who’ve said bad things about it at the merest mention that I may, at some point in the future, buy one. Pretty much all of them are myths (many of which have been debunked right here), or incomplete ideas about cost and payback (or apples-to-oranges comparisons). There are of course some valid criticisms, such as that the acceleration is not sports-car-like (it’s fast enough for a highway merge, which is all that matters to me), or that there are cheaper options if I’m focused purely on the financial aspect (I’m not — it’s one I talk about a lot, but the car has a lot of other merits). In particular, a used car would be cheaper (the hybrids keep their value too well, so it doesn’t make sense to me to get a used Prius). One of the best criticisms came from my friend Ryan who said “The thing about the Prius is this: it’s fuel efficient. It doesn’t use gas. And I make gas, so that’s bad.” [He’s a petrochemical engineer]

Nonetheless, people seem to want to criticize this car choice. I’ve made every attempt to look at it from all angles. I’ve updated my payback/savings spreadsheet with current gas prices and used a Matrix XR with automatic as my comparison car. You can download the 2010 version here if you like (or go to the Them’s Fighting Words post, which explains many of the factors that come into this kind of decision. Since gas prices have come down I’ve become more conservative with my gas price assumption, but even if gas prices stay at 95 cents/L for the next decade, the Prius will still save me several thousand dollars over a Matrix (even though the Prius is more than $5k more expensive up front!). That should handily pay for a battery replacement in the unlikely event one becomes necessary.

So we’ll see what the Toyota dealer says, but assuming they offer me a good deal, this may be your last chance to talk me out of it!